Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05] on HackerTube: recommended by 12 Hacker News commenters across 11 separate months, 2021–2025.
explainer · evergreen
Not Just Bikes introduces the "stroad", a street-road hybrid common in the US and Canada that fails at both jobs. He contrasts it with Dutch design, where each road has a single purpose, and covers cost, danger and ugliness.
HN links it constantly as the standard introduction to stroads and Strong Towns-style arguments about car-centric design.
“This video from the Not Just Bikes channel shows the stark difference between a street and a road”
20 Hacker News comments link this video. Each one links back to its thread.
Watch his video. Pick 2-3 at random, be a grown up and ignore the tone of voice and the snarkiness, and see what his points are. They're very solid. Try something like this: [link] ▶ this video
in “Accepting US car standards would risk European lives” · View on HN
The Not Just Bikes [1,2,3] YouTube channel also has an excellent series of videos based on work from Strong Towns. I link to these videos whenever a friend asks why I chose to leave the United States. :) [1] [link] [2] ▶ this video [3] [link]
in “The Growth Ponzi Scheme” · View on HN
I agree that the "US is a rural country" thing isn't true, but the way most US cities are built make walking either very inconvenient or outright dangerous. Posting this channel in this sort of thread is basically a meme, but this take on the topic is pretty good: ▶ this video
in “If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity” · View on HN
Watch some videos from this channel and you'll be able to see how the US definitely does not do enough in terms of creating safe road infrastructure for all: ▶ this video [link] [link]
in “Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes” · View on HN
I would say in the US, our road design means our speed limits are way too high for safe travel. Speed limits are set high with no attempt at reducing points of conflict. It's a meme at this point, but Not Just Bikes does a great job covering the terrible "stroad". ▶ this video Most places in the US are filled with wide, multi-lane roads posted for speed limits of 35-45 mph. But those roads will be packed with unsignaled driveways, where drivers entering the road needed to make unprotected and right left turns with and against traffic that's likely going 45-55mph, and drivers on the road need to predict the behavior of cars coming from almost any direction. Meanwhile, a thin stripe of white paint gets added to the gutter and is somehow called a bike lane - like anyone wants to ride their bike at the same grade as 2+ ton trucks flying by within a foot of your handlebars. Those same lanes will frequently disappear or reappear within a shoulder, and at intersections will suddenly cross or dump you out into a right turn lane. Better hope that driver turning right noticed you before you get hooked. It's even worse for pedestrians, where even in dense cities, a walk signal is by no means a safe time to walk. Unsignaled left and right-on-red means a car will likely fly through their path at any given moment. On your way to this intersection, you'll continuously cross driveways and slip lanes with curve radii to encourage speeding, sidewalks that dump you into parking lots (if they exist a
in “A smartphone app that allows public to submit evidence of speeding drivers” · View on HN
There are typically two kinds of roads these speeds are reached in the US: 1. Expressways, where pedestrians and cyclists are not allowed. They are walled off with specific entrances and exits. 2. Country highways, where pedestrians and cyclists are nearly unheard of, and are typically very easy to spot from a distance and adjust accordingly. There is a third area where these speeds are sometimes reached in urban areas that Strong Towns calls "stroads", and these have a whole host of problems. Going 10mph over the speed limit in these areas probably doesn't make a huge difference, because the are already so pedestrian and cyclist unfriendly to begin with. Not Just Bikes has a great video about them here: ▶ this video
in “Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones” · View on HN
This is pushing it as far as "talk", but more of a presentation. The Ugly, Dangerous, and Inefficient Stroads found all over the US & Canada ▶ this video
in “Ask HN: Best Talks of 2021?” · View on HN
Except streets and roads are designed to solve different problems: > Streets: The function of a street is to serve as a platform for building wealth. On a street, we're attempting to grow the complex ecosystem that produces community wealth. In these environments, people (outside of their automobiles) are the indicator species of success. Successful streets are environments where humans, and human interaction, flourish. > Roads: In contrast, the function of a road is to connect productive places. You can think of a road as a refinement of the railroad — a road on rails — where people board in one place, depart in another and there is a high speed connection between the two. > Stroads: Stroads are a mash-up of these two types of paths. We like to call them "the futon of transportation" because, just as a futon is neither a particularly good bed nor a particularly good couch, a stroad is neither a particularly good road or a particularly good street. * [link] A high-speed, high-volume thoroughfare with minimal obstructions to flow will have its per-hour capacity decimated by having to stop every couple of hundred meters by traffic lights and crosswalks. On the pedestrian side, who wants to cross an area where cars travel 60 kph (or higher): what happens if they don't stop? This video from the Not Just Bikes channel shows the stark difference between a street and a road (using examples in the Netherlands) and stroads: * ▶ this video If you make a place easier to get to primarily by c
in “How do you fix a stroad?” · View on HN
Cool seeing strongtowns here. Not Just Bikes is a YouTube channel that has helped popularize them recently, and has a lot of other videos about what makes living in the Netherlands so great (i.e. it’s not just bikes, although that’s a big part of it). Here’s Not Just Bikes’ video about Stroads: ▶ this video
in “The Stroad” · View on HN
While I agree that more standardisation would be beneficial, especially regarding electronics(!), the rest of the bike is fairly standardized (wheel / bottom bracket / pedal screw / steering column diameter etc.) . Unfortunately, I think the introduction of electronics via ebikes and other "new" technologies for the bike are diluting that standardisation in my perception. For another view point of why biking may be shit in your area, I invite you to watch a few videos of this channel: ▶ this video
in “Is Ford about to reinvent the bicycle derailleur?” · View on HN
Lack of demarcation makes things safer by raising the awareness of the people around you. Making things 'safer' actually reduces safety. I've posted this video on another thread, but it really needs to be spread out more: ▶ this video
in “Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US” · View on HN
> Well, the roads are safe (for cars). Not necessarily. Your risk of being in a fatal car accident is nearly 3x higher on suburban roads than urban roads. This is a good video on the deficiencies of suburbia road design if you're curious: ▶ this video
in “Kids need freedom, too” · View on HN
I've never encountered the term 'stroad' until I watched videos from an urban-planning-related YouTube channel, NotJustBikes, [link] . Here's the stroad-related video: ▶ this video .
in “Paris Vote Targets SUV Drivers with Parking Fees Set to Triple” · View on HN
City/road design, greater distances of travel, higher speeds. No character, moral, or legal failing required. Some designs work better in some contexts than others. I wish I could remember the YouTube channel but I saw a couple great critiques of road and city designs comparing the US and certain places in Europe. Ah ha! I found it searching “stroads”, this is part of a series: ▶ this video
in “I brought down a scamming operation with 15 bytes of PHP” · View on HN
They're marginally effective on Dutch roads , which were overhauled to be cyclist-safe decades ago, with new roads being safe by default. The Dutch approach unfortunately does not reflect even remotely on North American cities. You need a helmet, because stroads[1] guarantee accidents. [1]: ▶ this video
in “Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons” · View on HN
> Chronic use on infrastructure meant for pedestrians. The issue is Stroads [1][2]. Infrastructure caters too much for cars. If we had real streets, this wouldn't be an issue. I was just in Nashville, and they have scooters you can use. It felt 10x more dangerous than me biking at high speed in NYC. Even though there was a bike path, it was next to cars going 50mph, not fun, nor safe. [1] [link] [2] ▶ this video
in “A few concrete arguments for e-bikes” · View on HN
You have to separate the road from the stroad. Roads in Europe might be up to 60-70 kph even in a city center, but they also have calming intersections with roundabouts and to get on an off regularly or even ramps. Streets tend to be 30-40 kph depending on the place with lots of calming. The Ugly, Dangerous, and Inefficient Stroads found all over the US & Canada: ▶ this video
in “In 2019 40% of San Francisco traffic fatalities are from left turns” · View on HN
We can't afford it. Roads are a massive treadmill of maintenance. To step back, why do we have so many square feet of road space? Why do we keep expanding highways when it is proven that it does not help? The automobile and its inefficient infrastructure is bankrupting this country. We keep building more roads rather than investing in transportation infrastructure which is far cheaper in the long run. ▶ this video
in “The story behind Flexport founder's supply chain tweets” · View on HN
Obstacles are only one of the ways you can calm traffic. Planting trees near the streets, narrower lanes, speed humps, roundabouts are all measures with a proven record that they improve safety. Crossings should also be one lane at a time. > In all my experience with high-visibility roads, even though you'd expect people to be better able to pay attention to everything on road with good visibility and clear markings, they actually seem much worse in those conditions This is nothing new. You shouldn't design a street like a road. You will end up with something called a stroad, that is bad at both beeing a street(a place where you can live, shop and whatever) and a road(something that connects two places) Stroads are ugly, inefficient and dangerous. ▶ this video
in “The slow collapse of Amazon’s drone delivery dream” · View on HN
they set standards for what a street, road, and highway are. and they do not mix them. As a result they are safer, cheaper, and land use has a higher tax revenue. ▶ this video
in “Co-founder of Neuralink leaves the company” · View on HN